Curse

aron searle · Oct 06, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Ok call me an asshat, but im going ot break my own rule on not replying.

Quote:

I love how everyone jumps on Shinsei's back saying he's an elitest.

Maybe i got the wrong end of the stick, but thats exactly how it came across to me and others. The OP knew he made mistakes, i could see that was the point of the post (but in a humurous tone). What does shinsei's say....

Quote:

Pay attention to what's making you lose and learn. Here's a hint: “Never mind about tactics then – just kick their butts.” - is not a good strategy.

I don't support a beginners section for PvP. Newbeginners can learn from losing to the best. It's just a matter of paying attention and having the will to improve yourself.

yea really helpfull advice there, sorry but i dont think shinsei got the point of the post.

asshat mode off

Shinsei · Oct 06, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

yea really helpfull advice there, sorry but i dont think shinsei got the point of the post.

What's wrong with the advice? Being a reply to a lighthearted post as you chose to label it, I chose to make a lighthearted and short reply. Since you continued to try to peal everything I've said in this thread from eachother, I then chose to make a lengthy and more detailed post with small tips on improval to follow up my original post, which you so elligantly chose to ignore. Now, can we please stop analysing what people say and start discussing the subject at hand?

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 06, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

pvp does not have to be for everyone my friend. thats why GW is awesome. you dont have to be bothered with it.

of course if you want, you can learn how to GvG. only problem is the learning curve of the slowest player will be reflected in the overall skill of the group.

Fantus · Oct 06, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh

pvp does not have to be for everyone my friend. thats why GW is awesome. you dont have to be bothered with it.

of course if you want, you can learn how to GvG. only problem is the learning curve of the slowest player will be reflected in the overall skill of the group.

That's not entirely the point. This is not about people who don't want to PvP, it's about people who want to get into PvP but are not yet experienced. It's also not about a single member of the group (other group members could take care about that and teach them in that case), it's about whole groups or guilds. The question at hand is, how could we make the learning curve a less painful experience for new PvPers to avoid the things described in the original post. I don't think telling them "get your butts whacked 180 times in a row" is a very good solution to that problem.

Schorny · Oct 06, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

The question at hand is, how could we make the learning curve a less painful experience for new PvPers to avoid the things described in the original post.

Someone already posted the solution here (sorry I forgot your name and I'm too lazy to look for it :/):

The ultimate solution is guilds. Many good guilds are running a second guild just to teach less expierenced people how to PvP. You can play unranked GvG, get into organized tombs groups...

But you must be willingly to learn - and you have to accept that you are a beginner. Most people can't accept this...

crimsonfilms · Oct 06, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Someone already posted the solution here (sorry I forgot your name and I'm too lazy to look for it :/):

No problem.

Another real solution is ANet introducing Unranked Random.

This way, safe to get beaten up and you don't have to take it so seriously unless you want to.

Hell I would run my 8 healing monks for fun.

bele · Oct 06, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

One of the most funny and intelligent posts i've read.

Your'e pointing my reason not to get in PvP (there is no way to learn from a 5 second deaths everytime you go there) and that in a way i couldn't even guess.

thank you

Fantus · Oct 06, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

The ultimate solution is guilds. Many good guilds are running a second guild just to teach less expierenced people how to PvP. You can play unranked GvG, get into organized tombs groups..

This is rather a "quick and dirty" fix then an actual solution. It does fix the problem for unguilded players who want to get into PvP, but it doesn't really fix it for whole guilds who want to learn it as a team. It does also not fix it for anyone not wishing to leave their current guild.

The ultimate solution would be called "leagues". That has worked in real life sports pretty much since the stone age.

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 06, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

i guess it was a polite way of saying if you keep getting spanked over and over and over your team is stupid and you need to find a new one. i started the game the day the game went gold with my wifes guild which had 10 players. we made it to the top 500 without any help from outside the guild whatsoever. thats from pre searing to ranked. we all learned from our mistakes. thats what life is about.

yes, we got spanked hard on the way up. we even got guild lord ganked by ab. yes it took a while. yes it was hard. no it was not impossible. quite fun actually.

not making of OP in any way shape or form. just saying there are 2 options.

play pve and love it.

play pvp and learn it. learning hurts in GW.

op, if you seriously want to learn how to GvG pm me in game. friends me and use my nick here. i have an empty guild hall i can help school you with.

wsmcasey · Oct 06, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I've only done about 3 GvG's with my guild, and I figured out what to do on the second try. We won 1 battle and it was all good. We haven't done it since, but we might try again this weekend. I'm not sure why your Guild fell apart because of losing. Most PvE'rs dont care about rank or fame anyways.

The_Janitor · Oct 06, 2005, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Gah.. I hate GvG just because of the fact that it doesn't really explain much of what to do beforehand. I feel your pain.. :/

Signet of Humility · Oct 06, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Learn from the past
that what got me to where i am
if u are available 2morrow friday CA time..
pst Signet of Humility
ill help u via Team Arenas ^^

romO · Oct 07, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

as far as pvp for beginners, how about comp arenas and team arenas. that stuff is pretty laid back and you can just take a team in there and gain experience slowly before you dive into gvg. and your team should have settled all of that stuff about target calling and rank beforehand. its never best to rush those kinds of things if you want to win. explain to everyone how to call and target, how to follow it, and what to do to it and when. once everyone knows, you will do much better. it just takes some patience.

Aracos79 · Oct 07, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

ANet has already talked about why there aren't more PvP groups and options. They want to keep the PvP types available full of players. If they start splitting it even further, some types would never have enough players in it.

Think about it... if there was a "pro" and "minor" Tombs tournament, all the faction farmers and griefers would flock to the minor one, totally ruining it. So you'd have an underpopulated "pro" league and a minor league full of bots, griefers, and farmers. And among the hoard would be people truly trying to learn PvP.

So what's their option? Go to the "pro" league. What happens there? They get spanked... constantly, utterly, and repeatedly. Sure a few will learn and adapt, but the rest will say to hell with it and the population there will drop even further.

The system works the way it does for most people, and I think ANet should leave it be.

dansamy · Oct 07, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

OMG! I'm laughing too hard to read the rest of the thread.

Fantus · Oct 07, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

ANet has already talked about why there aren't more PvP groups and options. They want to keep the PvP types available full of players. If they start splitting it even further, some types would never have enough players in it.

I think this negative effect would be at least partially if not totally compensated by those players who would want to get into PvP but currently don't because it's too frustrating for them to learn. We have at least 3-5 players of this type in my guild. They are very experienced in PvE but not PvP, and the few times they tried it was too frustrating for them, so they gave up again. If PvP would be made more accessible for them, more players would play PvP at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Think about it... if there was a "pro" and "minor" Tombs tournament, all the faction farmers and griefers would flock to the minor one, totally ruining it.

Who says that the reward/faction awarded has to be the same in both leagues? A higher reward would keep the "pros" in their league. Also playing in "pro" league could be made mandatory for high ranked players/guilds, too. Manchaster United can't play in minor leagues, too.

Quote:

The system works the way it does for most people, and I think ANet should leave it be.

It does work for hardcore PvPers and competitive oriented players. It does not really work at all for casual and fun oriented players. Which is a very good reason to change it, because GW is AIMED at casual players.

pedrolito · Oct 07, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Think about it... if there was a "pro" and "minor" Tombs tournament, all the faction farmers and griefers would flock to the minor one, totally ruining it. So you'd have an underpopulated "pro" league and a minor league full of bots, griefers, and farmers. And among the hoard would be people truly trying to learn PvP.

What about a limitation on the minor tomb like only people under R3 can participate ? At least beguinner could have a start

Duly Thankful · Oct 07, 2005, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Firstly, let me say thank you to everyone who replied to this thread. There are some first-rate suggestions in there which will receive close attention, not just by me but my many other would-be PvP'ers.

On a personal note, I will never aspire to the heights of the dedicated people who live and breathe PvP, as I feel that I am a little too pacifistic for that. My wife says I am just too old, but I prefer to think of it as being chronologically-challenged. I dread to think what would happen if I rooted out my microphone (not seen since the computer was delivered) and installed Teamspeak or something. Her tolerant amusement would vanish very quickly if all she could hear coming from the next room was screams of instructions followed by screams of rage.

"TARGET THE MESMER!!! TARGET THE MESMER!!! QUICK!! Noooooooooooo! I'm dead!! Hello ground. We meet again"

Perhaps Anet should set up an 'Incompetents League' where total noobs can learn basics like 'How To Find Your Guildhall Exit' and 'Why Lava Flows Are Bad For Your Feet'. I would join it like a shot. Experienced teachers could wander amongst us, explaining gently that hitting someone with a flag is a bad idea, and that the Guild Lord that you are trying to attack is your own. Mind you, they would need the patience of a saint and very thick skin. "Its all YOUR fault! You distracted me!"

But its all good fun in the end, and I love playing this game. Just remember - next time you see me in PvP, I AM NOT A THREAT! Please leave me until last *sob*!

QuuTip · Oct 07, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Aaaaahahahahahahah, so hilarious. Please keep us updated about your progress.

On a side note: my cat likes to walk in front of the monitor as well... their animal instincts tell them the right moment to screw up their owner's game.

mamluk · Oct 07, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duly Thankful

Deathly silence. A few cautious enquiries about what target calling is. We kick the level 6 warrior from the group and suggest he make a PvP character. This leaves us one short, so we take a healing henchman.

LOL, the thought of a level 6 warrior in PvP just cracks me up.

Funny post